Episode 44 Jodi Mulholland
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[00:00:00] Welcome to Permission to be Human, the podcast. I'm your host Mel Findlater, mother, coach, and curator of Permission to be Human, the company and community. If you're a mom, know a mom, or want to be a mom, and you crave getting out in the world to make a difference, then you're in the right place. This is a space for moms like you to connect with yourself, your purpose, and your big audacious dreams.
Because when you feel your best, you can better you, your family, and the wider world. Let's do this.
Okay folks today we have Jody Mulholland . And I loved this conversation. Jodi has a big audacious dream of helping individuals and groups to thrive by cultivating, empowering mindsets. And strengths. That enable them to face the challenges of life with resilience. Her vision is to create a [00:01:00] world that is kinder. Where everyone has access. Access to positive psychology tools to unlock their potential. This way, our. Our families, schools and communities can all flourish together. Jody's goal is to empower people, to constructively apply their talents in ways that uplift. Humanity. So today we talked to Jody about, so. So many different things. things. So it really fascinating to hear her story about being a principal and how she. she. brought [00:02:00] in.
Mel: Hi, Jodi. Welcome to the podcast.
Jodi: Hi, Mel. Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be here with you.
Mel: You too. I always love having my fellow capsters, which if people don't know what that means, it's the Certificate in Applied Positive Psychology. So we did the same course, not at the same time. , I love bringing people from that community on here because there's just so much knowledge and seeing where you've taken the same stuff that I learned into your own route and journey is amazing.
And I'm looking forward to sharing your story to get [00:03:00] to that point as well as a mom yourself.
Jodi: Yes. Thank you, Mel. It's quite a beautiful thing, isn't it, to have this
Mel: shared learning? Definitely. As we were just mentioning to each other before, this idea of constantly learning, even when we're adults, is so, so important.
And I know has, it's where I come alive, but that's one of my character strengths, which we'll talk about later too. So that's, you know, learning is crucial in there. So so tell us a little bit about you. Who's, who's
Jodi: Jodi? So Jodi is Is a mom, a wife, a mom of a, uh, an eight year old. Doodle dog or a double doodle dog.
My kids are a double doodle, a double doodle. So a double doodle he's, he's, I guess what people call a designer mutt, but he is half labradoodle and half golden doodle. Huh? So a double doodle. Yeah, he's a big [00:04:00] boy. Yes. So I'm a mom to an eight year old double doodle. In addition to being the mom of two adult kids who are now 30 and 27.
And it's quite hard to believe as I say it to you, I am a former first grade teacher. I taught first grade. I had my kids. I taught teachers when my kids were little about literacy and reading and writing for purposes outside of school, right? Like we talked about this love of learning. That was something so important to me to develop this in our school communities.
And I was then a fast forward a little bit. I became a school principal. I recently retired or I say rewired as, as I like to say. And in between that time in 1999, I was 34 years old and I [00:05:00] was diagnosed with breast cancer. And my kids were just five and two and it was A quite shocking diagnosis. I had chemotherapy and radiation and I'm, I'm so blessed and lucky to be here 25 years later.
Along that way, there was another blip 12 years later, but it was just a, what I call a little blip. But, and the reason I share that it's well for so many reasons, but what I've learned and it took me so many years to learn this, it probably wasn't until a couple of years ago that the phrase. Be mindful, be present, really gained meaning for me.
Because it was not something in my in my, like my constitution of who I was. I was always rushing to the next thing, rush, rush, rush all the time. What's next? I was excited about learning and doing things. So now I'm taking [00:06:00] the opportunity to sort of look forward and look back at the same time, maybe not exactly at the same time, but to, to really.
Think about this in a conscious way and how I can be of service to others to help build build a better world, a world where people are kinder and understand what I guess what Dr. Chris Peterson and Dr. Seligman really talked about as positive psychology is the idea that other people matter and that.
We should and can lead lives where we can thrive.
Mel: There's so much there in, in Who is Jodi and, you know, the glimmer of the story that you just shared and there's some things that I want to pick up there and, and first, I'd love to hear a little bit more [00:07:00] about this learning that you've had kind of reflecting back of how to be mindful and more present in the moments.
Because, and I ask for personal reasons, because I am like the go getter who, when someone's like, what do you do? Or like, what does your day look like? I'm like, Hmm, which day are you talking about? Because I'll do so many things. Cause I love learning. I love building things. I love communities. And I just, You know, I'm one of those multi passionate people and I think a lot of our listeners possibly are as well and with the key topic of this podcast being about building that big audacious dream.
It's really easy for us to forget to be present, when we're thinking so much in the future. So, I'd love to dig into that a little bit more, about like, where did that come along? Does it, how or where does it relate to the breast cancer journey? Which sounds like it was, you know, a, a big shift [00:08:00] in your life.
And yeah, let's take that where, wherever it
Jodi: wants to go. Yeah. Thank you for asking this. So yes, that was a big shift and just as an overarching comment, yes, be present, be mindful in the moment. It sounds like a bunch of crap. And when people would say this, right, we, it's like, really, thank you. What does that even mean?
How do I, I don't have time to do this. I can't stop to what, what am I going to do? You know? And then, and when I did try these things, my mind would race. So this is something that's taken a long time and it's, it's a work in progress for sure. So really going back and thinking about like this, this whole mindful journey, right?
Like The breast cancer piece, [00:09:00] it was for sure life changing and I think that was a time in my life where my what I now know to be toxic positivity took over. It got me through. It put me in survival mode and it was okay. Like, I'm good. This is what's happening now and you know, life happens. We don't, we know life happens, right?
So I'm going to do these treatments. I'm going to do all of this. Then I, you know, I'm going to put on my blinders. I've said all of these little phrases I'll share with you so many times to women, you know, let's, and to be a voice of positivity. Put on the blinders, move forward, right? I don't have time for this.
I'm just going to do it and be done. And then in the middle of this, I started working out. I became a spinning instructor, a, I taught body pump group fitness, a personal trainer because now I, [00:10:00] I need to control my health. I need to do everything I can do. You feel some sense of control. So fast forward a little bit.
A couple of years later, I went back to work full time because this mattered to me even more like this, this passion for building communities of of care and Learning. So, I would literally say to people, I'm an optimist. My glass is not half full. My glass is full to the tippy top. And then I literally used to say, please don't spill it.
I literally say all of this. My glass is full to the top and please just don't spill it. I thought until 2021. So we're going, you know, 12, we'll go 20 years but that was a good thing [00:11:00] until someone in one of our classes said to me, Jody, like, can you live your life like this? If your glass is filled to the tippy top, what happens if, you know, something spills a little bit?
I didn't even want to hear it. And I thought, Oh, so at this point I was learning about emotion and and how to manage emotion. My husband and I tell this story and people think he's, he's awful for about two seconds, but he's incredible. And it's so supportive. I would be moving fast forward and it would be time to go for an annual visit or a three month visit or whatever it was.
This had probably been an annual, had been, It was an annual visit to, I think, the oncologist for just to check in. I was fine. And the night before, it was a trek into New York City, not far, but still, it was [00:12:00] a different day. And I started to cry and I'm crying and he looked at me and he said, why don't you just stop crying?
I said, Oh my gosh, you're right. And I pulled it together and I said, okay, that's better. And he looked at me and he said, Do you think I'm being serious? And I said, well, it worked. No, I'm okay. Now we're going to go, let's go do this and we'll be done. And he pointed down to the rug on the floor. He said, yeah, if I lift this rug, this is like, what's under there.
And we had a big discussion about, you know, what is under there and what really needs to come out. So that was sort of the beginning of an awareness for me. And it's so, it's interesting to even talk about that, that as an adult to feel like, Whoa, there are [00:13:00] some unacknowledged emotions. And I don't, I didn't like it.
So all of this learning about emotions and how they manifest in us and how we have the power in ourselves to notice, name, and navigate this. It's helped me. And incredibly, like, just, it's just been so powerful for me that I am now even more passionate about this and now working with families and kids to learn these skills.
Now, as a principal, I used to say they're coping skills. Kids need more coping skills, but we can dig deeper and, and it's not so hard.
Mel: Yeah. That's really interesting. Cause. I think I've probably said coping skills too, but as you said, I'm like, yeah, but coping is just shoving it under the rug [00:14:00] almost, right?
That's almost that, that word sounds like to me where actually what you're describing is, there's
skills of being right, of being with where we are. Right then in that moment or the moment later, you know, cause in reality, we can't always burst into tears when we're in the middle of trying to do X, Y, or Z, but maybe we can a little bit later, you know, like in the bathroom with our, by ourselves or to our husband later or whatever it might be.
Yeah.
Jodi: Driving in the car. Yeah. That's the time, right? That's
Mel: the time. Do you know what? And it's not just crying. For me, driving in the car, the most recent, most therapeutic thing I've ever done when I was, I was digging into some of my, like, under the rug feelings about life and womanhood and motherhood and the unfairness of the world, and I had so much anger.
And so I drove my car, I dropped off my dog, and I was on this like [00:15:00] really quiet road that I could just pull over and nobody's there, and I just screamed at the top of my lungs in the car, and it was so therapeutic. And I stopped, I was like, no, I need more, and I just did it again. And yeah, there was a few tears and stuff, but it was just this release of that emotion that we hold inside so often.
And something that you brought up was toxic positivity, and I wonder if we could dig into what that means a little bit more, because I think it's really easy. when we're talking about this positive psychology thing, for people to think, myself included at the beginning, probably, that that means we're, we need to be positive all the time, right?
And that that we don't let in, The negative parts of the world or the negative emotion, and so I'm curious what you have to say about, , what is toxic positivity in your eyes? Why is it so toxic?
Jodi: Yeah, that's, that's a great question. I spend [00:16:00] a lot of time talking with people about that. One of the little sticking points for me with positive psychology is, Just the name positive psychology, because it's really more, I don't know if it's balanced psychology or another, I don't know if I can think of another word that describes it because people do feel like, yes, just be positive.
Right. Like, and, or be optimistic. And as we've learned, we're neither optimistic or pessimistic. We are, we may have an optimistic thinking style, which I have, or a pessimistic thinking style. And we've learned as humans, you know, we do tend to go towards the negative, but this toxic positivity was just that trying to be positive all the time.
Right. There's something to be learned for this, or this was meant to be, or you'll learn from this. [00:17:00] And, and yes, I certainly did learn from so many experiences in my life, but understanding and learning about positive psychology as taking in and accepting all emotions. And knowing how we manage those even happy emotions, even happy emotions are, are sometimes overwhelming and how do we manage those.
So, really, Again, going back to that notice name and navigate like, Oh, Mel, you said when you were driving, you felt this sense of anger sometime and you were able to name it and pull over and be like, I'm going to scream or whatever, you know, maybe cry a little bit and then think I need more, but it's sometimes emotions are mixed.
And some of the things I learned were like, what is this thing I'm feeling? And even to back up further is, yes, I'm feeling something [00:18:00] because maybe, uh, my stomach hurts or maybe I need to sit down for a minute. I might feel a little dizzy. Or my breathing is shallow. Yeah. You know, am I okay?
Mel: Body section?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really tapping in with, that's how I think of it is, so the notice part of it is like, I notice that something doesn't feel quite. Uh, or right, or it doesn't feel, it just feels, I just noticed that it feels basically whatever it is. My stomach hurts. My foot's fuzzy. Like right now I'm like, Oh, my foot's fuzzy.
I'm noticing that. Well, that's because my toes are curled underneath my, okay, I'm just going to like wiggle these about. Right. So that's the noticing. And then the naming of like, why do you think that is then doing something about it, deciding how to get through it. Yeah, whether that's you know what in half an hour I'll have a moment to myself that I can do this more whether that's just saying to your [00:19:00] kids like I'm noticing Let them in on it, right?
I'm noticing yeah, my stomach is hurting a lot and I think that worry might be in the room with me right now So we got to figure out How I'm not going to yell at you because you're not moving fast enough to go to school today, right? No,
Jodi: I love it. That's the story in my head. That's the story. But yeah, because the story, when you say this, the story in my head is, we laid out your clothes last night.
You had two outfits and now you don't want either, right? Because we'd hear or read books or listen to all of the people tell us that your kids should choose their outfits. And if you lay out two, it's great in the morning. That's the story. Yeah. That there's always some other, you know, that's laying in the ointment that changes that and your emotions, right?
Anger creeps up. And when, especially in those moments when, right, it's time to go, go to school, we have to be in the car in five minutes, you have the bus is coming. We have a party to go to. That's when it runs [00:20:00] high. And I love what you said. It's this using this metacognitive language that is. For me, it's directly transferred from what we do in school.
When we teach kids how to read and write, or maybe when they're a little bit older, so the main character is feeling this, or how does this work? We need to be modeling this language for our kids when they're little. Like really little, , you use the word coping, right? I, well, I used it and we, we talked about that a little bit and I think, yes, it's right.
The skills are the skills that language coping aligns. I don't know why in my head, but it sort of does align in a little bit of a negative way. Like something's wrong. You have to cope. It, it makes me think of two other words, tolerance, right? You have to be tolerant of someone. And when I was, uh, [00:21:00] as a principal, I would, I would literally wait until someone finished a sentence with that word.
It was a trigger word for me. I would say, I would actually, I'd model it because of the teacher in me. I would say I would use a sentence about acceptance. So don't just tolerate me, accept me. And it's semantics because at the end of the day, I was saying the same thing, but to me, it, it means. So much more.
Yeah.
Mel: And I think we could switch that over to our emotions, right? Don't just tolerate your emotions, just accept them. Accept that they're there for a reason. Anger is there because it's trying to protect you, right? Fear is there because it's trying to protect you. All happiness is there because something has made your body just want to feel that way. Right? We accept every emotion as it is and it's when For me going back to the toxic positivity thing it because the toxic part comes when we [00:22:00] don't Accept the emotions that are actually there And
Jodi: they get stuck on,
Mel: you know and they get stuck and that doesn't mean we have to be stuck in with them.
It's, uh, it's more that we let them go through. I think one of the other, uh, episodes that will come out just before this one, we were talking about this exact thing and how you just, you just, Notice it. Just notice that it's there. And sometimes navigating is simply noticing, right? Yeah. Just notice and acknowledge.
Notice and acknowledge. Because we don't always know what navigating means after that, right? Right? Sometimes the navigate comes later. Navigating is just noticing sometimes though. It's just noticing, oh, I feel really like worried even though I just woke up, I just opened my eyes, but worry's hanging out in the room right now because I know I need to get my kids to school on time today or I'm going to be late for this and then this [00:23:00] and then this and then this, right?
Just notice. And I guess navigate would just be breathe within it. Yeah. Let it go by. That's it. Yeah, that's amazing. So the other thing I'm really interested in you, you said this phrase that I thought was really beautiful when we were speaking just before we started here. And when you were talking about becoming a principal, which was, I believe you said only about a year after you got your diagnosed.
A couple years
Jodi: after. Yeah. Well, I went, I did the exercise stuff, and then in 2015, Five, six, I became a principal. So I went back to work full time in 2005 and then, so five years after my initial diagnosis.
Mel: Right. And the phrase that you said in there, uh, to describe why you wanted to do that and then what led you on in your journey was that you wanted to lead a community of people who care about other people.
And I just [00:24:00] thought that was such a beautiful way to describe. Your way of being and your values in the world and so I'm curious about a little bit more about how that principle journey went for you, because I imagine there was still a lot of emotion in your body and in your life around, you know, only two years after.
A diagnosis and managing through all of that, what was principal life like,
Jodi: Oh, principal life was like, it was, I, I knew when I started teaching, I started teaching first grade. As I mentioned, I knew in that moment that I wanted to lead a school or district community. I knew it. The moment I stepped in the classroom, I had a principal who, this is my very first job was like a leave replacement job.
And I taught first, third, and second grade [00:25:00] for half a year. The principal gave us a folder. And had articles in it, professional articles and building culture and community and learning math and all of these things. And we met as teachers and grade level teams and then we had to debrief and talk about it.
How could this impact our kids. And I sat there. Again, it so connects with me now that I know my strength, one of my character's top strengths is love of learning. But I thought, Oh, I want to do this. I wanted to really make a difference for people. And I grew up, you know, as a kid in the 1970s. So my teachers, Right.
We're older than that. And we listened to the Beatles and love is all you need and imagine. And it really was, you know, just, I was brought up as a kid to care about other people and to be part of this [00:26:00] community. That was where the foundation was of love and care and kindness and that filtered out into learning.
So for me, I would, every year I would tell my teachers, every child who walks into your classroom into the doors of the school every day is someone's baby. They're sending you their baby. It's the best they've got. And we need to know this. We need to. This is keep that in your head. This is someone's baby.
And now they're with us six hours a day. There are babies and we can make a difference. So if we give our kids this foundation of care and kindness and relationships, if it's rooted in that, the learning will come.
Mel: That's so beautiful. I wish every principal my children have would think in the [00:27:00] same way because that is, that's what education is meant to be.
It's a, it's a community of, of love and learning. It combines them. Yeah,
Jodi: 100%. And the parents are really like, I think of this triangle, right? The triangulation of this, the parents need to feel this also. And that's challenging. That became extra challenging throughout my years. In, in the school, just, I mean, the simplest, Well, most difficult reason actually was school for school safety, right?
So parents were in and out of the schools all the time. But now, you know, it's a little bit different. We were like security is different. So that open door policy is, you know, Has just changed.
Mel: Yeah, it's it's a really difficult one when we have fear combined with that love, right? How do we balance the the tables there?
How do we keep the [00:28:00] love? And ideally not have the fear by by creating a safe environment. Yeah, so hard. So I'm curious of how You know, you did the principal thing and then you got back into your love of learning and learned a whole slew of more things. So how has this led into what's life now? So life is busy
Jodi: and exciting.
Many days I miss everything. Seeing the kids, uh, I substitute principled, principled, it's funny, as a verb, in, in a local school district. One day I did a sub principal gig. I didn't even know that was a thing. I don't. I think it's a position in many places. So I was lucky. And so I didn't know that the students in this elementary school, I'm walking around the building with a, I had a smile on my face all day, whatever I was dealing with, it's just [00:29:00] looking at the joy of the kids.
So that was exciting. So that's one thing. But what you said earlier made me giggle inside is that like, what, what is your day like? Every day is different for me. Whereas when I was working, it was every day was different throughout the day because I never knew what was happening, but I'd wake up, I'd get dressed, shower, get dressed, go to school, and I went to the same place every day.
Now I have to make sure the night before I'm looking at my calendar. What am I doing? What am I taking in class? Am I leading a workshop? Am I mentoring school leaders? Am I observing a student teacher for a local university? So. Doing so many different things that bring me joy, but at the end of the day, I have the opportunity to, to work with, to share this work, with schools and communities.
And some of this work [00:30:00] that really speaks to me has to do with character strengths and mindsets, growth mindsets. Yeah.
Mel: And I want to dig into what those things are in a second, but the question that's coming to my mind, which you've described kind of vaguely there, but I'm curious of what will come out is, what is your big audacious dream?
Jodi: My big audacious dream is to
Is to, well, I used to say, I want to change the world, you know, I want to, I want to I want to be at a big education conference where this matters and be with other educators and, and families and not just have separate pieces to have this world come together for so yeah, I guess I'm still working on [00:31:00] it and that's something that I've had to give myself permission for
Mel: permission to not know the answer to that in an elevator pitch of 15 seconds like they teach us, we
Jodi: should.
Right. That's right. When you're, when you're retired or rewired, I mean, I, I, yeah, it's so interesting to me because, you know, the saying, the days pass quickly, no, the days pass slowly. The days go slow, but the years, no, the days are slow, but the years are quick. Yeah, that's so I blinked my eyes, you know, I was the new teacher in the school and now then I retired So, how did that happen?
And here you get to explore
Mel: all of these different ways to Share that vision because well, you didn't say that in 15 seconds two sentences. What I heard was this dream of uniting [00:32:00] A community of people around how we educate our children as a community. Right. I love it.
Jodi: That's what I'm hearing. That's it.
Mel: Yeah. And that's, that's beautiful. And so one of the ways, uh, or a couple of the ways, probably multiple ways, the two topics that you've brought up with me before are this choice map concept and character strengths. So I wonder if you could teach your audience a little bit about like, what does that mean and how we, or you could bring it into the world.
Jodi: Yeah. So I'll try quickly. So the choice map is the work of Dr. Marilee Adams and she, her company is called the Inquiry Institute. And we learned about Dr. Adams work, CAP class. And it really stuck with me because along with Dr. Adams work, we learned about. Growth mindset. And we, [00:33:00] it's a term we hear all the time now, right?
Growth mindset, Carol Dweck's work was, it's incredible work. And it's basically growth mindset is about the way we think about our intelligence and our abilities. So they talk about it in terms of a, whether you have a fixed mindset where you think it's, you know, based in intelligence, We hear many people say, I can't do math.
Right? So that, that's a fixed mindset versus a growth mindset. Maybe the power of yet, you know, I can't do this yet, but I'll keep trying. So it's about self efficacy and knowing that if you believe and work really hard, you can achieve, you can achieve greatness. So that was something in schools. We, we talk a lot about this with, with our students.
You know, keep working and, and you'll get it or keep trying. But when I saw the choice map, it [00:34:00] gave me a visual and it gave me this path to making this switch. So we talk about in positive psychology, in psychology about the, the idea that as humans, we are programmed to go to this negativity bias, right?
We have this bias within us. We can talk about our ancestors needing to worry about where they were getting, you know, food and, and safety. And that sort of. The, this this underlying piece of this, but right. So we can go into fight flight freeze mode very quickly, or something happens, maybe at work boss tells you to do something.
You know, what's wrong with him or her, or I can't learn this or I'll never be able to learn this or what's wrong with me. What's wrong with them. Right? So [00:35:00] these are phrases, things that go through our heads. That's us heading down the judge or path. Dr. Adams calls this the judge or path. And if you keep going on this judge or path, you will wind up in the judge or pit.
So, and, and it's not fun to be in this judge or pit. So we have this choice because at any given moment. Our thoughts, feelings, and circumstances can change many times a day at any given moment. And we have a choice. So if we can pause and recognize, am I on this judger path without judgment, right? Like, Hey, I'm catching myself.
Just like the emotions. Hey, I'm catching myself. I'm judger path. We can switch lanes. And we can move to the learner path. And Dr. Adams talks about thinking in questions, she calls it question thinking. So we ask ourselves and maybe it's take a breath [00:36:00] first you know, down regulate a little bit and ask questions like, so what is the other person thinking, feeling, needing, or doing?
How else can I look at this? And that opens us up to curiosity. And then, and once we're in this broadened phase, right, we, we are, we're able to look at options and grow and the possibilities then become really endless. So it's, it's hard in a podcast because this is a very, this is a visual. App, but I picture this in classrooms where we can teach this to our students and we can actually use this metacognitive language like, what are we, what am I thinking in my head?
Where am I? Hmm. You know, I think I'm in the judger path right now. You know, they canceled an assembly. Oh, you know, you right away, you want to go to something negative, but I'll stop myself and say, Hmm, [00:37:00] you know, I might be in judger. What are some questions I can ask to now broaden and broaden and build just the theory of Dr.
Barbara Fredrickson. So,
Mel: yeah, that's amazing. And I love the part that's coming up for me about how you just described that is the fact that. When we, when we also talk, talk about how we have negativity bias as humans, we will almost always, without a lot and lot, a lot, a lot of practice, start down the gender's path.
And that's okay. Right? Yeah. The difference is we have a choice and what's great about this, this map. So I, so just to help people with the visual, if you have a piece of paper with the left hand side in the middle view, right? And it's something that happens and then you, you go over to the, to the right, and, and you choose, you probably had a negative thought, most likely, [00:38:00] because we're human, and then you might start going downwards, downwards, downwards into this pit of judgment down the bottom.
But partway through that, that's where we can choose to go up, right? And sometimes we might choose to go up right away, but it's okay if you don't. The great part about it that I always get excited about is you can just, you can choose at any point, as you say, it's like, and you don't just choose by saying, okay, I'm choosing, you choose by asking those questions.
So like, what kind of questions might we ask ourself in that moment? I guess it depends what the, if it's about yourself or another person, but like, I wonder why, that's often one that like, cause I'm a, I'm a why bird. I like ask why a lot. Like, I wonder why my husband was so short when he came in this morning as opposed to assuming and then going judge, judge, judge, judge, right?
Jodi: Right. Right. Like what was he thinking, feeling? Yeah. What
Mel: was this morning like? That's, what are you, where he's at already? You know? Yeah. And, and then [00:39:00] catching ourselves and keeping asking those questions. So that's such a brilliant example of a super useful tool. It's called the choice map, right?
That's.
Jodi: Yeah. It's called the choice map and people can download a free copy of that, right? , directly on her website, which is inquiryinstitute. com. Okay.
Mel: Perfect. So I highly recommend our listeners go and have a look at that because it's one of the ones that I remember most from our course as well. And, you know, do it with yourself, show your kids, stick it up on the fridge, you know, we can, we can start to do this in small increments and build up to that, that wider world learning, learning this
Jodi: tool.
Yeah. I wish I had this when my kids were young, but I can tell you, you know, now that. It's so exciting. I'm so I, I get so excited for other parents when I talk about my adult kids because the relationships we have with our kids. [00:40:00] I mean, for my husband and I, it's just so awesome to watch them as they grow up.
The, like the incredible humans that they are. So I'll have conversations about the choice map and I share with them all of this learning and they'll make fun of me, you know, they'll tease me a little bit with love, like, Oh, here we go. Right. Because I don't stop talking about this. But right. Like, however, like the yes end, they will also say to me, you know, Oh, I'm on the judger or you're going on judger, the judger map.
But they have all told me they have used this work in their own lives, in their own work. Like I'm look, they've said, I am looking at things differently. I am catching myself without judgment, just noticing that, wait a minute, I can think about this differently. This is me. I can take a minute and ask some questions about this.
And it's really helped, you know, my, my family [00:41:00] in a, in an amazing way. Yeah. Thanks. Well, I guess I only wish we had it sooner, but it's really, it's just great to have this tool that helps us really understand how we think and how we can again, without judgment, right, with permission to be human and grow and just look at things differently.
I
Mel: completely agree. And that was such a beautiful description of that. So I really want to go into character strength with you, but I'm going to propose that we chat again about it. Because I think we want to give it more than the five minutes of, of capacity and energy that, that listeners might have left.
And so I suggest we, close out this particular conversation and perhaps if you're up for it have another one soon specifically about character strengths because I know that's something that you're very passionate about and how [00:42:00] they can fit into our lives and that of our children and education and you know, let's, let's dig into like this dream that you have of, of changing the world of education and how that relates to character strengths.
If
Jodi: you're up for it, Mel, I, I would love that Mel. Thank you. That would be amazing. Yeah, instead
Mel: of squeezing it in at the end. I feel like it, let's give it justice because it's a really, really important one. So as we close this conversation then, what's one thing, one tip perhaps that you would like to give to mothers who are listening to this podcast and thinking, I have a big dream or I wish I had a big dream and they're doing all the things and maybe feel like they're doing nothing all at the same time and are feeling stuck.
What would your tip be? [00:43:00]
Jodi: So I think, I think my tip would be
to stop when you can, right? To just take a breath, take a breath and know that the answers don't need to be right now. That you don't need to.
necessarily dig deep in that moment, just to be present in the moment and
be open to what's, to what's unfolding in front of you, if that makes sense. And to be, again, like not to Not [00:44:00] to beat your permission to be human, but that's what, that's what it comes back to. It's really the perfect, it's the perfect name for your podcast because it is like, take a minute and do give yourself a little self talk like this, this is okay.
Like what I'm feeling is okay. It's, it's hard being a mom of young kids and helping humans grow up. It's hard, but it's so, it can be, it's so joyful and so rewarding, but to just remember that like, it's okay to accept what you're feeling, take a deep breath in, hide somewhere, whether it's in the car or wherever it is, because you need time to just, to just be and these big dreams, these big audacious, audacious, wonderful dreams will come to you in time.
When you stop and
Mel: breathe. It's [00:45:00] usually when
Jodi: they come. Just breathe. Yeah, exhale slowly. I used to work on that one. Yeah.
Mel: Yeah, exhale. So I do that every day. There's moments usually forced that I'm like, can't just slow down, breathe out, blow out the candle.
Jodi: Into out for
Mel: exactly so awesome so you are out delivering some workshops if people wanted to work with you or just chat to you more or love what you're saying, how would they
Jodi: get?
Yes, I'm doing workshops coaching. Helping families, kids with ADHD, all kinds of stuff. People can reach out to me via email directly at Jodi, J O D I, at TogetherWeThrive. life.
Mel: Brilliant. I love it. And that is an amazing name in and of itself. Together We Thrive. That's like your dream in a sentence. There you go.[00:46:00]
Jodi: Thank you. You got my 15 minute elevator pitch. Exactly.
Mel: Exactly. All right. Thank you so much, Jodi.
Jodi: Thank you.
That is it, folks. This has been Mel Findlater on Permission to Be Human, the podcast, and I am so glad that you have joined us here today and hope that you have taken away some tidbits that will help you go away, connect with your big audacious dream, and make that massive impact in the world that you are dying to make.
If you liked today's episode, please, please, please Like it, share it. Think of one person. Think of one person that you think would also like it and send it on over to them. Let's get this out there and more moms feeling like themselves. Inspired, Dreaming big and out there. Please do head on over to find me on [00:47:00] Facebook with permission to be human or Instagram or you can even Off me an email and say hello.
Have permission to be human always at gmail. com say hello and let me know that you listened. What did you like about it? I would love to hear if you didn't like it. I don't really want to know. Just kidding. You can share that if you want. I would love to know, however, who you are. Let's connect. Let's find out what you want more of.
I want to hear from you and I want to make it what would be useful to you. As always, remember that you have permission to dream big, permission to feel big, and permission to be you. You have complete and full permission to be human. For real, you [00:48:00] do.
